Tineke van Geel The Ambassador of Armenian Dance in the World

In how many countries have you taught Armenian dance? How they learn about the classes?

Actually I taught in 14 European countries. Sometimes in one country you have participants from neighboring countries, so after visiting a workshop they invite me. Actually I am not advertising as a teacher. Once I went to the United States as a participant in a big dance camp, and when they discovered that I am a dance teacher, they invited me the following year as a teacher. Thus, I made a tour in the US and Canada. In the US I met people from Japan, so I was invited there too. I made seven tours of Japan teaching Armenian dances. Then I was invited to Taiwan, Hongkong, Singapore and Malaysia. And I have some contacts in Australia, so I was also invited to teach there and in New Zealand.

So, you are invited to various places because people know you or they have learned some of your dances through other teachers, and also because the music I have is of good quality. I have also dance notations, so people who study, later can pass dances to their students. Currently I work in three directions: I teach Armenian dances as a guest teacher, I produce CDs and I organize dance and culture tours to Armenia.

You produce CDs only with Armenian music?

Yes! Their titles are “Hayastan,” “Anoush,” “Garni,” “Shoror,” “Ararat,” “Barev,” “Muradian Ensemble” album I and II, “Spirit of the morning wind.” Each CD contains 18 dances — Tamzara, Papuri, Tars par, Lorke etc., mainly traditional, but also some choreographed dances. For instance, I bought the rights of Khachatur Avetisyan’s two dances, producing them on my CDs. I met Khachatur in 1988, and at that time he has written a beautiful oratorio in commemoration of the victims of the Armenian genocide. It was the earthquake time, so he asked me if I could take the studio tapes of this oratorio to the Netherlands and produce them on CD, which I have done. The idea was to allocate the income of the CD to the earthquake victims, so Avetisyan’s oratory was produced in the Netherlands and later released in Paris. By the way, about two years ago my husband was in Istanbul on a jury of a major dance festival and he got in touch with Kalan production. This is a big folk music company, that also emphasizes the music of non-Turkish groups. My husband Maurits met the director, who showed him Khachatur Avetisyan’s CD and asked if he knew about it. Maurits answered that actually his wife had produced it. The producer said he would like to produce the same music in Turkey in memory of Hrant Dink. Both myself and Khachatur Avetisyan’s son, conductor Mikayel Avetisyan, were ready to cooperate, but it was quite problematic because, as I said, that piece commemorates the Armenian Genocide victims. Finally this CD was produced in Turkey, with Armenian titles, but with subtitle “In commemorations of the victims of the Great Catastrophe.” It happened; you can say “We don’t want that,” but you can also say: “That it is an important step.”

In your opinion, what is typical in Armenian dances?

It is hard to say in one word. You have, of course, different directions; there are groups doing traditional dances and others do more choreographed dances. I know these two separate worlds are not together. In my opinion — because I worked in both worlds — they crossed over and they both have very interesting aspects. It is very good to keep traditional dances, on the other hand, they are still very much alive, and they are being changed. I, as a researcher, see that the traditional dances are not like a museum; people like to do their own interpretation, which is natural. I respect the fact that traditional dances frequently came from Western Armenia but I am also very interested in the other direction, which includes maybe a little bit more theater or choreography, but still there are traditional elements in the steps. If you look at the character of Armenian dances and you look just at the people in restaurants, you see that every woman can dance with hand movements. Foreign peoples are not used to dancing with hand movements; this is very far from our cultures. So to be able to teach foreign peoples how to work with hand movements you more or less have to offer them the basic dance. I think it is also an interesting component, as everybody from a young age is being taught that; young girls see the dances at the parties and they naturally copy them. I think there is also a place for choreographed dances because they can teach the foreigners at least how to do that. So I can see very down to earth movements, the Western Armenian material, mixed dances a lot, but I also see there is spot for very macho, very powerful male dances and lyrical women’s dances. I want to crossover to both worlds.

Some years ago the Ministry of Education of Armenia gave you a special diploma for your 25 years of promoting Armenian dance, music and culture.

It was in 2006. I felt very honored to receive it. You see, after teaching dance I always provide the participants information about Armenia and its culture. Sometimes I feel myself as the dancing ambassador of Armenia in the world: being non-Armenian I try to promote this culture as much as possible. With this purpose, since 2005, I have organized tours to Armenia as well. Despite of all difficult circumstances I have encountered living in Armenia, I think that the country is worth becoming a destination. Part of the tour includes dance classes from local teachers, and of course we go sightseeing and have meetings with dance groups. Here I cooperate with skilled choreographers from Yerevan, Ludwig Poghosyan and Gagik Ginosyan for more traditional material and Paylak Sargsyan, who also worked several times in Netherlands. We went, for example, to Sasnashen village to meet and dance with the people from Sasun, and visit Zolakar, where Alashkert dances have been preserved, to Yeghegnadzor, etc. I incorporate dance and meeting people in this format. I traveled a lot throughout Armenia; tourism is gaining ground but they want to do too many things with tourists in one day. The program is very packed; some tourists see four-five churches in one day, they make the long trip to Artsakh, so I decided to do something different, setting up cultural tours to Armenia with a more relaxed program combining hiking and culture. At the moment I am only offering combined dance and culture and do not advertise the standard touristic tours anymore.

You work mainly with amateurs?

At the moment, yes. I did teach at my husband’s company, once a week teaching basic folklore. I choreographed Armenian pieces for them, also in Finland and Taiwan. The Armenian TV broadcast videos of my dance classes “Sasouni razmakan par” (Battle Dance of Sasun) and “Tsaghkats baleni” (“Blossomed Cherry-Tree”) in Taiwan. Everybody was surprised to see how Chinese people successfully execute the Armenian dances.

I was present at your training. Who are the participants?

They are a variety of people. For instance, this year there are three people from New Zealand, two of them are teachers. I am sure they will keep some of the material, that’s why I make DVDs of the trainings, so they have a backup with the dance details and music and can take them home. Other people just want to see Armenia; dance is their hobby, so they combine these two.

And most of them were of middle age. Is that usual?

A very interesting question. That is different in each country. For example, in Western Europe, the age of people attending folk dance classes as a hobby is over 30, while in other countries it can be even 40 plus. In the US, it is frequently higher. In the Netherlands we are very active in folk dances, as we have many good folk dance teachers and a lot of amateur groups. The present development is that we draw more teenagers. For my generation it was so amazing to see so many teenagers dancing traditional dances every last Friday of the month here at the Cascade in the summertime. By the way, the same was in Taiwan, because they do folk dances at the universities, which we don’t have in Europe. We have to be careful do not lose the youth; otherwise we would die out as a folk dance community.

Are Armenian dance teachers not jealous that a non-Armenian teaches Armenian dances?

Sometimes for me it is also a bit strange that me, a Dutch woman, teaches Armenian dances. So that is also a reason I invite Paylak Sargsyan to Netherlands for teaching and directing, as he is a valuable source for materials, as our other teachers. As about jealousy, I felt it by some dance teachers, but not in Armenia…

Instead of being happy that their culture is being spread…

Yes, I wish to give credit to people here. Also when I teach in some country I always give credit to the person from whom I learned… Recently I started to produce DVDs along with CDs that I dance alone. It is important to keep material that is there, for teachers. In some countries, for instance, in the US, it is common to learn from DVDs, which I think is wrong, because you first should experience the dance, to have it in your body, hear the voice of the teacher, who tells you about the details.

And what are your current plans?

They are pretty much unchanged — I still travel and teach and continue to organize dance and culture tours to Armenia and promote to visit the country. I really feel it as my second homeland. Besides I have lifelong Armenian friends and I am lucky that my visits to Armenia offer me the chance to meet them again. I am Dutch but I feel very connected to Armenia and it is amazing to think this all started researching dance.